A CHAT WITH ZACK SNYDER

Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice arrives in stores on Blu-ray and DVD on Tuesday in an extended, R-rated Director’s Cut. To put it mildly, I didn’t care for the theatrical version, but I am curious to see how the new edit plays out. To acknowledge its release, I’ve decided to do what I did a few months ago, when Star Wars: The Force Awakens came out on home video. Namely, I’m posting the full transcript of the interview I conducted with the film’s director, Zack Snyder, on March 1, 2016, twenty-four days before the film opened in theaters. A shorter version of this Q&A appeared on the TIME For Kids website. Note that at the time of the interview, I had not yet seen Batman v. Superman, and had not yet formed an opinion on it. 

GLENN GREENBERG:
What would you say is going to set this movie apart from other superhero movies?

ZACK SNYDER:
I think just from its premise, right off the mark, it’s Batman versus Superman. Every kid, me included, has taken their Batman doll and their Superman doll and kind of “had at it” with them. And I think that just that premise, of these two favorite icons trying to come to blows or become friends or whatever that means, I think that’s the fun of the movie and that really, right from the start, is at a scale that I think is really fun.

GREENBERG:
Based on the trailers and TV commercials, it’s clear that the movie picks up on a number of plot elements from Man of Steel, but the studio has been very careful not to call it a sequel to Man of Steel. So how would you describe it?

SNYDER:
I would say this: More than a sequel to Man of Steel, it’s like a prequel to Justice League (scheduled for release in 2017). And that’s the way I’ve thought about it, in the sense that I really wanted to lay the groundwork for Justice League, because I’m excited about the idea of extending the DC Universe and including these other heroes and really just getting to go on these other amazing adventures with these characters who of course we’ll meet a little bit in Batman v. Superman. And then of course, we’ll really get to know them in Justice League. So for me, it’s fun to have that playground to explore. And so I guess that’s my feeling about it, when you think about whether it’s a sequel or a prequel or whatever it is, I felt like by calling it a sequel, it kind of implies that it’s a Superman movie alone. Though Superman plays a really strong role in the movie, of course—he’s one of the main cast—it’s really about a way of using this as a stepping stone to go beyond even that.

GREENBERG:

And Justice League is the next movie you’re directing, correct?

SNYDER:

Correct. 

GREENBERG:

And when does that start shooting?

SNYDER:
April 11—like, tomorrow! (Laughter)

GREENBERG:

Did any of the criticism or feedback that you got on Man of Steel, in terms of the level of destruction, Superman not doing enough to prevent it, and Superman killing Zod—it looks like a lot of that is going to be addressed in this movie in a big way. How much of the feedback that you got from the audience influenced the development of this story?     

SNYDER:

You know, it’s interesting, because I’ve always been a big fan, and sort of an advocate, of the idea that superhero movies need consequences, and that they can’t just be these romps where the reality of the destruction of a city is not addressed. Like, there’s no way—no credible way, anyway—that you evacuate a whole city in 10 minutes. The movie becomes unreal and impossible in that moment. And I personally have always felt that we never shied away from the consequences.

And it’s funny because even, like, Superman killing Zod—Superman’s killed Zod so many times in the comic books that it’s like, not even a thing. It really has a lot to do, I think, with the way people have sort of come to visualize Superman purely from the cinematic point of view, what they learned from the [old] movies. And because I’m a comic-book fan, that’s really, like, a version of the character that’s not consistent with the canon.

But absolutely, the idea of putting Bruce Wayne at the center of the destruction, and sort of having the perspective of the man on the ground seeing these gods battling in the city—the rage he feels, the helplessness, really become a lot of the motivating factors for Batman, and I felt that was a really amazing and organic philosophical jumping-off point for the two of them to begin from.

GREENBERG:

Very much so, actually. And how did the idea come about, going into this movie, that you would bring Batman into it and make it this co-starring thing?

SNYDER:

We were just talking about who [Superman] should fight next. And I can remember just bringing up Batman and saying “Batman” out loud, and once you say it out loud the one time, it’s kind of happened. And then you’re like, “What about Brainiac?” and then everybody’s like, “Wait a minute! Did someone just say Batman?” You can’t go, “What about that cooler guy, there’s another guy who’s cooler than Batman.” You’re kind of stuck once you say “Batman.”

Zack Snyder, right, discusses a scene with the new Batman, Ben Affleck.

GREENBERG:

How do you strike a balance between the two characters so that one doesn’t seem cooler or more favored than the other?

SNYDER:

A lot of it is, I love both of the characters. As a comic-book fan and a fan of pop culture, those two guys are pretty much it for me, as characters go. In order to, though, tell the story of their conflict, you really have to flesh them both out all the way. And I think the way you get at it, from a filmmaker’s standpoint, is to really just drill down all the way on each of their points of view, so that when they come to conflict, you’ve explored the “why” completely on both sides, and so then you find them at that centerpoint of the movie, where they’re about to come to blows, and if you’ve done your work, you sort of sympathize with both.

GREENBERG:

So there was not one that you sort of gave an edge to, or one that you like better?

SNYDER:

I don’t think so! I really don’t.

GREENBERG:

You would think that a war between Superman and Batman would be enough for a whole movie. What was behind the decision to bring Wonder Woman into it? It seems like she’s going to have a prominent role in the film.

SNYDER:

It has a lot to do with the fact that once you’ve established a world where Batman and Superman can exist together, a universe, you really have opened the floodgates to the DC Universe in a pretty great way. And for me, Wonder Woman represented in an amazing way the implication that the Justice League characters were out there, and so I put her into the movie.

She’s not one of the main characters, but she definitely has a significant role. I’m such a huge fan of the Trinity (Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman) as a concept, and I was able to realize that vision and, also, at the same time, give a huge nod towards what’s possible.

Snyder guides the new Wonder Woman, Gal Gadot, through some fight moves. 

GREENBERG:

What do you hope that kids will get out of seeing the movie? Is there a particular theme, moral, or message that you hope to get across to them? 

SNYDER:
I hope what kids get out of it is an amazing mythological journey, and the exploration of these two iconic and amazingly complex characters that will surprise them at every turn, but will also seem like reliable old friends that you can count on.

There absolutely is a moral or message or theme, but I don’t want to say it 100% because it would give a little bit away about what the movie is. But suffice it to say that the resolution of their conflict is an important part of the “why” of the movie.     

GREENBERG:

We saw from the incredible success of Deadpool that a superhero movie with a hard-R rating can be a huge hit. When you’re dealing with iconic characters like Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman, how far do you think it can go at this point? How far should it go?  

SNYDER:
Honestly, for me, it shouldn’t go that far. I feel like it all goes back to tone and how you treat them. What Deadpool represents, in my mind, is the ability of the audience, now thoroughly educated in the superhero genre, to deconstruct, and have fun with the deconstruction. So you get, certainly, a more complex canvas to paint your painting, as far as the audience’s perception of the movie goes.     

But for me, with Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Justice League—I think you can have fun with them, but I don’t know that making fun of them is a thing that’s possible.

GREENBERG:
Or getting into too mature a realm, I would imagine.

SNYDER:

Yeah, though that really depends on how it’s represented. You want them to have real conflict, and have real struggles in their lives, but at the same time, you don’t want to ground them with that stuff. It’s all in how it’s represented. Like, with a Pixar movie, there can be pretty complex, emotional themes that go on, but it knows how to go between the two worlds in a great way. And like with Star Wars, for instance—it’s pretty intense, and by no means is it making fun. It’s reverent towards the material, and in its reverence, that’s part of the fun of the experience.

GREENBERG:
And certainly you tread mature ground yourself with Watchmen, which, as I recall, was rated “R,” as well.

SNYDER:
Yeah, and that’s a hard R, and that was based on the comic book’s themes, which are really R-rated. And I guess for me, especially at the time, I felt that because that was a comic book that deconstructs the mythology of comics, and that it was themed in that way to begin with, of course an R-rating made sense to me because it was consistent with the material.

GREENBERG:
Absolutely. Finally, I think a lot of people are wondering: When are we going to see another Superman solo movie? And do you have any say over that? (Laughter)

I don’t have 100% say over that, but I do believe that there’s so much material, and so many great stories for Superman, that I wouldn’t be surprised to see him flying off on a solo adventure at some point.

Snyder and Henry Cavill converse during a break from filming on Batman v. Superman. 

GREENBERG:
Especially since Henry Cavill seems to be embodying the role so fully, just from the little I’ve seen in the trailers and the commercials.

SNYDER:
He’s really hit his stride with it, and it’s amazing. I really feel like he’s zoned in on it in a great way.